KEY
Bold:	Interviewer
Regular:	Respondent
[ ]:	Uncertain word(s)

Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.  
You’re very welcome. 
As you know we are interested in your experience with games and in what you think about video games and their influence on people, on society. 
Sorry, are you able to change to voice call?
Is it better?
(Sorting out sound/video problems).  
It will be about an hour interview, we will use the slides to guide our conversation, I will share some keywords with you, like this, you’re free to use them, not use them to guide your thoughts, they’re not something we are required to talk about but they can help us to just guide the interview. 
You do know you’re being audio recorded, right?  
Yeah. 
And that’s okay with you?
Yeah. 
Do you have any questions about the interview before we begin?
No, happy to crack on.  
I would like to start by talking about your experience with games and what kind of games do you play, how much do you play and so on. 
Okay, yeah, so I started playing games when I was, just after three years old, got into Mega Man on the old NES and I’ve just been playing ever since really as a hobby.  I play probably an hour or two a day and I play a lot of, sort of PC games nowadays.  I play League of Legends, Moebius, and sort of just adventure games as well.  
How much do you play typically?
About one to two hours a day I’d say.  
Do you mostly or exclusively play single player?
No, I play a mix of single player and multiplayer. 
What kind of games in multiplayer?
The multiplayer will be a MOBA game like League of Legends and also shooters as well, like Overwatch.  
You play also with strangers?
Yes.  
Only strangers, or also people you know in real life?
A mix.  
Do you only play on the computer?
No, I play mainly on the PC but then I also play a couple of console games every now and then as well; console games tend to be single player, PC games multiplayer.  
Do you also play on mobile?
Not really no, no I don’t.  
I would like to ask you, how do you feel that games influence you?  Or how do you feel they can influence people? 
Yeah, that’s a good question.  I think games can influence people, but it depends on the game.  So if I’m playing League of Legends, which is just an action sort of strategy game, it doesn’t really influence me, the games that influence me tend to be the games that are more like films, like the Last of Us and things like that, games that leave a lasting impression where you remember the ending and there might be a sort of moral story in there, those are the games that I find influence me and my friends.  
How do you feel they influence you?
I think for me the sort of story driven games that influence me, do so in a way that they’ll teach me something new, or actually they will offer a different perspective, so if I’m playing a game, I’m trying to think of an example here.  Yeah, for example, I think like Metal Gear Solid 4 has a theme of sort of growing old in it, like the character, Solid Snake he’s come back for sort of one last mission and he’s quite old and playing that game gave me like a slightly different perspective on how I saw life.  So for me, games can offer different perspectives, make me think of ideas that I might not have had before, almost like reading a book, you know.  
Yeah, so gaining something from the story of the game.
Yeah, it’s telling a story, there’s an underlying narrative and yeah, you know, some games have crazy ideas so I think it’s, for me, it’s easy to see that distinction between the games that are just over the top like Twisted Metal, like a crazy car destruction game, that’s not really going to influence me, but the games with deep storylines are.  
Again like BioShock Infinite where you, I don’t know, have you played BioShock Infinite?
No, I’ve heard about it, but I’ve never played it myself. 
All right, I don’t want to give away, but there’s something that happens that made me start thinking of, oh could that, if that actually happened would that be the case in real life, you know.  
So they make you reflect on something you didn’t consider, am I right?
Yeah, consider a different sort of perspective I’d say, yeah. 
I’m also interested, you said you don’t get this kind of influence from action oriented games, but I’m interested in whether you think action video games influence you on a cognitive level I would say, like maybe make your reflexes better or your spatial awareness.
Yeah I think for me, you’re spot on, it’s the reflexes is what it’s done for me and my ability to think quickly.  Like my wife and I joke sometimes in the house, like if I knock a cup off the side, I can usually, if I knock something, I can usually react and stop it from hitting the floor and I’ll say, gamer reactions, and it’s become a bit of a joke between my wife and I that I’m quite quick to react to things, and I really don’t think I would have that if I hadn’t played the games that I do.  Many games are reaction based, you have to move quickly and react quickly, and I think it’s good brain training.  There have been studies out there that have shown that games can increase your cognitive development and reaction times, and for me it’s the reaction times that games have given me.  
I think also having that ability to step back and think and look at the bigger picture, because games really encourage you sometimes to not just go charging in through the front door, you might be required to sneak round the back and find a secret entrance and for me, I’ve sort of applied that to my life as well.  There’s never one, the hardest solution, it might seem like just one hard solution to do things in life, but there’s usually another way you can do things. 
So you think you are carrying in real life this ability to take a step back and reassess the situation. 
Yeah.  I’m not sure I would’ve had that if I’d not played games.  
Another thing I would like to talk about, you said you play League of Legends, which is both collaborative and competitive game at the same time. 
Yeah. 
Do you think your view on collaboration and competition has changed by playing these kind of games, or even your ability to collaborate and compete?
No, I’d say I already had that ability, but for me I played a lot of football, so I learnt teamwork and collaboration back then, I think.  So I don’t think I’ve learnt anything new from League of Legends.  
The only thing I’ve learnt from League of Legends, because the environment, the players can be quite toxic, I’ve learnt, it’s actually given me a thicker skin playing that game.  So it’s taught me that people can be very different when they’re in the game environment as to when they are in real life.  If you get those ten players in real life, I don’t think they’re going to start swearing at each other and calling each other names, but when they’re behind the screen they’re more likely to flame, you know. 
Yeah, and this is something, it took a bit to get used to?
Yeah, it did because before I played League of Legends I was never, I never really experienced that level of anger, or the insulting sort of dialogue you’ll get.  It’s not all the time obviously but it’s there and I tend to just mute everyone now before I go into a game, so then you don’t get it.  
The last thing I wanted to ask in this part of the interview is whether you think games can be addictive?
Yeah, I think they can.  I don’t think more so than any other medium; people are addicted to watching TV or addicted to drugs or alcohol, I don’t think gaming should be something – I think as a human you can get addicted to almost anything, and games is one of those many things. 
But not more so than other activities?
No, not more so, I’d say equal to, or less.  But it’s hard to say, right, because I don’t know anyone who’s addicted to games.  
Well it also depends on how you define being addicted to video games, which is not clear cut, I get the impression. 
Yeah, exactly; because to professional e-sport players, playing seven or eight hours a day, to them it’s not an addiction if it’s part of their job.  
So the third big question I’d like to ask you is, if you can see any practical application of video games, by practical I mean using video games not just for entertainment, but also for something else. 
Okay, what so is that, you want me to answer that as a question, or are we going into another question?
No, no, this is the question, can you think about practical applications and if yes, which kind?
You mean skills that games have given you?
Yeah.  
Yeah, so obviously what I said earlier, games for me, I play a lot of adventure games so it’s given me that ability to step back.  So if I’ve got a task with work, a lot of it, I think, has helped with work and also dilemmas in life, if you’ve got a situation with friends or a family member, games has helped me to always think about, looking for a second option or a third option.  Being diplomatic as well, I think I’m quite, I think games have taught me negotiation skills over the years.  I’ve played a lot role-playing games where you have like several dialogue options, you know, and that tapped into what I’m saying, it reminds you that there’s so many things you can do in life, you don’t need to just hit the first option.  
Reaction times, so yeah, practical skills, if someone throws a ball at me or if I’m playing cricket or something like that, I’ve usually got good reactions.  Or if something’s dropped I can usually grab it before it hits the floor and things like that, so yeah those are the main practical ones I can think of.  
Do you think games could be used to specifically train these kind of abilities?  Because I mean these are benefits you gain, I would say accidentally while playing video games for fun, and these are the side benefits.  Do you also think that games could be used specifically for training these activities?
Yeah, I do, because if you had like a really basic programme on your computer which was reaction based, where for example, maybe like a red dot randomly appears and when the red dot appears you have to click the mouse, if you did that and it was random, so you could never guess when it was going to come up until it came up.  If you did that for half an hour a day, I’m pretty confident like your reactions will improve, or stay at a high level compared to someone who doesn’t do that.  
So yeah I do believe they can be used as training tools and they are used as training tools.  If you look at McLaren they use a simulation set up for their F1 drivers who practice going round tracks on a simulation and it’s all set up like an actual F1 car.  The same for aeroplane pilots, they have a simulation which helps them learn how to land a plane.  So yeah, I’d say there are definitely practical uses for games.  
Another practical use you’ve already talked about is people who play games to earn money, so professional players in a sense.  What do you think about that?  Do you have any experience about that?
So e-sport type of things?
Yeah. 
Yeah, so I work with the British E-Sports Association so yeah we’ve seen, there’s a lot of positive benefits to come from games.  E-sports is always a different, it’s like a subcategory within gaming, it’s its own sort of separate entity and e-sports is great, because it encourages teamwork, cooperation, communication with your teammates, socialising with your teammates; again working on strategies to overcome, to beat the opposition, overcome a challenge.  
There’s a lot of positives from e-sports when done in moderation and a lot of the pro teams now have regimes, so they have exercise regimes, gyms, they’ll have like chefs in their gaming houses, cooking them healthy meals and they exercise every day as part of their regime, so e-sports for me is really positive.  
When I was growing up I didn’t have anything like that, it was just me playing by myself, it wasn’t ‘til I got to a teenager that Xbox Live came out and online gaming was booming and then I was suddenly talking to people on the other side of the world while I was playing, and that was pretty cool, you know, and now, there are real benefits from it, in e-sports, but yeah when done in moderation I think is the key one to remember.
Do you think, well you’ve already said it’s growing as a phenomena, do you think it will continue growing, it will become widespread?
Yeah it is, I mean it is widespread, so if you look at the numbers; I think it’s over two-hundred million viewers around the world and that’s set to break to almost four-hundred million, I think, by 2020.  So it’s on a great trajectory now, but after 2020 we’ll see, the bubble will burst eventually, but at the moment, the next few years it’s just on an upward curve.  All the publishers are making money from it, the viewers’ numbers are going up, and ticket sales are going in and more and more e-sport teams are emerging and investors are getting involved as well. 
Do you know the term gamification?
Oh yeah, gamification yeah. 
Are you familiar with it?
Yeah. 
Okay.  Have you had an experience and do you think it is useful or not?
I’m not sure about gamification, I can see the upsides of it, and I can see that you can get reward cards from high street stores, you know if you buy something three times, if you shop three times in a month you’ll go up a level and then get access to more discounts and things like that.  For me, it doesn’t really affect me that much, because I’ve played so many games over the years I know what companies and things are trying to do when they try and gamify in real life and it doesn’t work with me, that carrot on a stick thing really, unless it’s something I’m really, really interested in, in which case I’ll do it anyway.  But that’s just me on a personal level, I do think gamification does have its benefits, definitely. 
Moving onto the next topic; do you see any ethical issues in the use of games or in the messages they convey?
Yeah, definitely, I think like all creative mediums games’ developers and publishers should be aware of the messaging they’re putting in their games, but at the same time I don’t want – in recent years we’ve seen this weird phenomenon called Gamer Gate where it’s several things but in essence it’s sort of a consumer drive to weed out corruption in games journalism but then also making sure that developers and publishers weren’t pressurised into doing things.  
I can see both sides of the fence, I of course don’t agree with the threatening behaviour that people had towards critics and developers online, but at the same time I don’t like it when a developer is pressured to change something in their game, which is ultimately like a piece of culture, it’s a piece of art or whatever, it’s a creative project.  It’s not – it’s really difficult, it’s a difficult topic.  
I think developers and publishers do need to be aware of what they put in their games, especially if kids are playing them.  If a game is an 18+ then it’s an open book for me, developers and publishers should be allowed to express themselves just in the same way that film producers do.  There’s a lot of 18+ films out there that are sick and horrible to a lot of people, but some people like horror films or whatever, they want films like that, they don’t want that creative expression to be taken away.  
You talked before about the level of toxicity in online gaming, do you think that is a problem that should be addressed, or do you think people should be able to freely express themselves in the game?
I think, like anything, expression is important, being able to express yourself is important, but you can’t just go up to someone and call them an – insulting, your mother did this, blah-blah-blah, you wouldn’t do it to someone in the street and not expect a response, so you shouldn’t be allowed to do it online and not expect to have repercussions.  If you say something disgusting to someone and insult them, there should be punishments there, and developers are trying to take steps to address it, but you’re never going to stop it properly, unfortunately.  Because if you ban a player there’s nothing to stop them coming back with a different account.  So unless the system changes I don’t know what else developers can do to clamp down on toxicity, it’s very, very hard.  
The only way I think to do it, and I’ve been saying this for ages, is to remove anonymity online.  If we removed anonymity from Twitter and to have a Twitter account or a game account you have to supply your name, or your passport details, we’d soon weed out most of the abuse overnight, because people do it because they can get away with it under an alternative name.  
But personally I’m not this sure about it, I mean I did see some arguments on Facebook, I mean with people using their real names and they are facing their profile pictures and saying things, but that’s just my personal opinion.  
Yeah I mean there always will be some people, but I just think it’ll be managed better. 
Hmm-hmm, and there will be less of them, you’re saying. 
Yeah.  But it’s hard to say, of course. 
What would be your estimate of the percentage of toxic people in these kind of games, because─
Oh, that’s a tough one.  Well in League of Legends I’d say about a quarter of players, yeah about twenty-five-percent.  
I mean I have some games where everyone seems toxic, now I have other games where no one talks, so about twenty-five-percent if I had to guess based on the time I’ve spent with League of Legends over the past three years or so.  
Another topic I would like to touch upon on the ethical side is that of monetisation of video games, because for example, League of Legends already has an interesting monetisation plan because─  I mean whilst games were all the same in this regard, you know, you pay to game, you had it forever and that was it, and now there are more and more games with subscriptions and DLCs and micro transactions, but how do you feel about those?
I’m really comfortable with it actually.  I actually like the way that games have gone being predominantly free to play and then having micro transactions, because it gives you the freedom to play as you want it.  Like for me, for League of Legends, I think over the past three years I’ve sent about £250 on the game, which seems an extortionate amount, but for the amount of time I’ve got out of the game, I’ve got a lot more time and fun out of it than I would’ve had spending forty-pound on a boxed game and only playing it for a month and then putting it down and selling it.  So I don’t have a problem. 
I do have a problem with the mobile in-app purchases, there’s just some ludicrous prices in games.  I think there was a video I watched the other day from Marvel, I can’t remember the name of it, it was a Marvel superhero game on the iPhone, on smartphones and you had to pay something like five-pounds to unlock a box, and you didn’t even get a full character to control some of the boxes.  I think some of the characters you have to spend about twenty-pound to unlock a single character, I think that is ludicrous.  I don’t agree with – I agree with micro transactions when they’re done in a sort of, yeah I guess sort of ethical, a fair way.  I don’t believe in playing a game and having to spend hundreds of pounds in the space of a few months to get anywhere.  
Whereas a game like League of Legends where it’s all cosmetic, that’s fine, I pay if I want my character to look good, or if a new character’s come out and I don’t want to wait a while to save up the free credits to get it.  I think that’s – and the prices are fair; I like micro transactions, I think it works well and I think subscription can work well.
You’re saying, when the prices are fair, but I’m not sure I understand if it is a matter of price, I mean how much you have to pay, or a matter of what you are paying for.  I mean cosmetics versus an advantage in game play. 
Yeah, it depends on the game, it really depends on the game.  For me, I won’t be playing those kind of mobile games, so for me the value of unlocking those boxes is zero, whereas I play League of Legends a lot so I determine things in League of Legends to be a higher value than other games, so I’m more willing to spend money.  So I think if the user – the more a user enjoys a game, the more willing they are to spend a bit more money on it, that’s how I see it. 
The last thing I would like to ask you on the practical side of video games is how do you see the portrayal of individuals, for example on gender representation, race representation?
I see it the same as I do films, so I’ll go into every game open-minded, but like I was saying earlier there are some people out there that think, oh my god there should be a certain number of minority characters in games, for fair representation, there should be more female heroines and strong female characters in games.  I do think over the years games probably have been a little bit stuck in the past, but if you look at games in the past sort of five years they are improving a lot; we’ve had some great strong female characters in games, and minority characters in games that probably wouldn’t have been around back then.  
But then, you know, I’m saying that, we’ve had Tomb Raider twenty years ago, that’s a strong female lead.  So I think nowadays where you’ve got Twitter and everything, it’s so easy to express your opinion; you’re always going to upset someone.  If you don’t have enough women in your games, you’re going to upset someone, if you have too many women in your game you’re going to upset someone else.  So I’m just happy for developers to express themselves and just for people, to remind people that games are supposed to be fun at the end of the day, that I don’t think they need to be taken so seriously.  
If there’s lesbian relationships in Dragon Age, it doesn’t bother me.  If that helps people out there that think lesbians need better representation in games, then that’s good, but for me personally I don’t look into it too much, and I don’t think developers should worry too much about having to put things in their games, because I think that could stifle creativity in the future. 
So I can see both sides, so it’s a difficult subject that one.  
Yeah, but you are more on the free artistic expression side?
I think I am, yeah.  I think if you’d have asked me five or ten years ago, I would’ve been on the, everyone needs to be represented.  But as I’ve grown older I’ve realised, hey the game developers aren’t a bad bunch – a lot have been changed as well.  I mean the amount of games that get released in Japan and the characters are changed before the game is launched in the West is pretty staggering over the years, and it tends to be a lot of like, you know, if there’s a female character with a lot of flesh on display in a Nintendo game it’ll get covered up, and that annoys a lot of the hardcore fans of the game.  But at the same time it probably appeases more liberal thinking people, and like parents who don’t want that kind of thing in the games that their children are playing.  So I can see both sides, I’m kind of on the fence with it. 
Like you say, yeah, leaning a bit more towards the creative expression side, creative freedom. 
Moving on towards the end of the interview, I want to ask you, how do you feel that games influence society?  If you believe they influence society. 
It’s a tough one. 
Yeah, I know (laughs). 
I think they do influence, I don’t know about society as a wider term, I think they influence gamers and the people that play them.  Do video games influence a thirty year old mum who’s bringing up two kids and has no interest in games?  No, I don’t think they do, but they do influence children that play them.  
I mean you pick up things without realising it.  Now I played a lot of video games as a child and I actually took the positives of games, the games that reward you for doing good actions, for saving a village or doing something you didn’t mean to do to people in the game.  So games influenced me positively, but they can influence people negatively as well.  
If you just play shooter games, I’ve heard stories of people just playing Call of Duty and then wanting to join the army.  Now would they have wanted to join the army had they not played Call of Duty, perhaps, it’s hard to say.  But I think games do influence the gamers, and more so the children gamers in my opinion. 
This brings the issue of regulating the use of video games, because – I mean do you think that the current restrictions on the age at which you can play certain video games are enough?  Or do you think we need tighter restrictions, or less restrictions?
I think they’re okay, because I don’t know how you can falsify a restriction, because at the moment there’s nothing to stop a parent buying Grand Theft Auto for their eight year old son, there’s nothing to stop it.  I know in the US I think the, and here, the retail staff have to say, oh just so you’re aware this game is an eighteen.  But from the stories I hear, most of the parents think, oh because my son’s friends are playing the game, it must be all right, and they’d just buy it anyway because of pester-power even though they could [0:38:29].  I don’t know how we can better enforce that. 
Do I think an eight year old should be playing Grand Theft Auto, of course not, but I don’t know how we’re going to better enforce that without someone going into someone’s home and checking that their children aren’t playing eighteen games, it’s not going to happen.  
I think the restrictions we’ve got at the moment are fine, PEGI is fine.  What we don’t have, what we need is better education for parents, because I don’t think parents necessarily know what their children are playing.  So for me it comes down to parenting, better parenting than the game age ratings.  
You talked before about games artistic expression, especially when you were talking about how games developers should be free to express themselves in games. Do you actually believe games that have an artistic value can be considered art?
I don’t know, again that’s another tricky one.  I wouldn’t like to say.  I think art is different for everyone, right, so if I go to an art gallery I will interpret the art differently to other people, and it might express their ideas differently, and that’s great, and I think it’s the same thing with games.  I’ll get something from a game that I will enjoy, one of my friends will dislike it.  I’ll take something from a game that other people might not, so it’s all down to interpretation, so if some games, and people want to view games as art, that’s fine.  For me, I don’t really see them as art, I see them as I do films, a creative tool in medium.  
I would also like to ask you, how do you see the evolution of games over time, because games are different from where they were when we were both younger, and you already said that, online gaming for example has grown quite a bit, and it just wasn’t there or wasn’t this size.  How do you think that the evolution of gaming changed their role, and how do you see the future of video games?
Yeah, that’s a good question, the future of video games.  I’m not convinced yet by virtual reality, I know a lot of people are saying, that’s the future, and it could well be.  But for me I just see it as another Nintendo Wii 2.0, it’s a fun gimmick, it’s a fun, cool piece of technology that people like to try for half an hour.  For example, I couldn’t play [0:41:59] for four hours with a reality headset, it would just be very nauseating, but I could sit down for three or four hours and play it.  So cor, I mean the future, once we get to 8K there’s not much more we can go with the human eye.  From articles I’ve done; I used to write for a PC industry magazines, from articles I’ve done, once we get to 8K there’s not much greater sort of detail that the human eye can see past that.  
So once 8K becomes the norm in the far future and we have, the graphics have improved as much as they can.  I do think that the cloud and the internet is only going to increase, maybe one day we won’t have consoles anymore, maybe it will just be a service like Amazon, and you have all the games that have ever come out and you can download whatever you want, some are from Nintendo, some are from others, buy them that way.  Other than that, it’s hard to say how else it’s going to change.  
E-sports is going to continue to grow, but I do think the death of consoles is not too far away now.  
Moving on towards the end of the interview, we’ve talked a bit about problems of video games, opportunities of video games, is there any kind of advice you will give to different kinds of people involved with video games that could make the situation better?  
You mean for researchers, for who exactly, sorry?
For researchers, players, developers, parents.
Well for parents, in my role where we’re trying to just educate them as to what e-sports is and the fact that it can offer career opportunities.  I think there’s a lot out there, people out there that don’t realise, gaming isn’t just about, it isn’t just you playing a game and wasting your time or doing something as a hobby, there’s loads of careers, thousands of jobs out there in the game industry.  So I’d stress that point.  I think the games industry is only getting bigger.  
And you think this is underestimated on the side of parents? 
Yeah, and particularly with e-sports definitely, yeah.  I’d really encourage them to take an open mind and educate themselves as to all the job opportunities and great things there are available for their children.  
But yes, it’s hard to say, researchers as well, just be very careful – my message to the researchers would be that the e-sports community is very unforgiving, very passionate, very vocal.  So I know there was an example a few months ago of a, I think it was the Institute for E-Sports Leadership, that put a website up and it was a bunch of researchers from around the world, and they called themselves ‘leaders’ because in research, in academia, that’s just a term, right, a leader to, someone that’s looked into an area.  But in e-sports leader means an actual expert that’s been leading in that field for about twenty years, so a lot of people in e-sports were upset when they saw this website and I think the website has gone now.  So just be mindful of researchers coming in saying they’re experts in e-sports and they don’t have any experience in it, that’s not a good idea.  
But if you say, I’m a researcher and I’m looking into e-sports and this is what I’m studying, that’s fine.  So yeah, I’d just let people know that the e-sports community can be a bit funny and a bit finicky, but deep down it’s just because they care and they love, they have a deep passion for gaming and e-sports, so I think that’s only going to continue as time goes on. 
What would you suggest to developers?
I don’t think I would suggest anything, the only thing I’d suggest is to be mindful of all the different games out there.  Some gamers don’t have a disposal income that others do, and be mindful of your audience and hitting them with pay DLC after DLC, and just be mindful of that really.  
Like what you were saying earlier, the influencing factor, be mindful that even if you produce an 18+ game, children would still be playing it but through their parents and – but I wouldn’t want to advise developers too much because I’m not a developer myself and I don’t want – keep doing what they’re doing, producing great─  What I want from developers is more ideas, I want different games, I don’t want to play Call of Duty 25, I don’t want to play FIFA every year, I want to play, I want new experiences, so I’d encourage developers to really think outside the box and come up with some new experiences and be bold and brave. 
What is your suggestion to players, if anything?
What e-sport players, or just gamers in general?
Both if you have a different suggestion for the two groups.
For e-sport players just to be professional, because there’s a lot of youngsters out there that are doing some silly things and it can ruin their careers, so be professional and patient.  
For gamers, be nice and have fun (laughs) that’s it really, yeah.  If everyone followed that I think the industry would be in a better place. 
The last group I would like to ask for your advice is institutions, so for example, the government.  Because you talked about this issue of regulating access to video games, do you think the government should do something different?  Or is it parents’ responsibility?
Yeah, that’s a good question.  I would say it’s a parents’ responsibility.  Again, you know, I don’t know what the government can do.  I don’t want a state which is controlled by the government like a Korea or something.  I don’t want, I don’t think that’s good, I don’t think that’s healthy for the creative industry.  So I think going down the route, yeah it depends, if the government want to do something they can work on marketing campaigns to better educate the parents.  I don’t think parents know that PEGI age-ratings even exist.  Half the parents probably don’t even know they exist, or care about them, so more education around that. 
But unfortunately in the times we live in, that’s so far down a government’s priority list, I can understand that also.  But I think if the government should be doing anything, it’s better educating parents, so there’s lots of campaigns and activities they can do, if they wanted to, in that area. 
We are at the end of the interview.  If you want to add something you thought about and didn’t know when to say, or just some closing words.  
Yeah, closing words I will say, I think that gaming offers a lot of positives and I encourage people to look out, look – explore the different research and publications around them, the research you’re doing for example.  To look into gaming, because times have changed a lot since the Donkey Kong arcades of the eighties and gaming’s in a different place now.  It can be used to tell stories, to educate people, there are so many positives that gaming offers now, like we were saying, increasing your reaction time, your teamwork and collaboration with other people.  
Even sort of blossoming peoples’ creativity as well.  You know, if I’m a child - when I played Mario Brothers the first time as a child, I was sort of ecstatic with that, it really tapped into my imagination as a child, this plumber running around jumping on turtle’s heads and going down pipes and things, it was just a fun thing.  So I think games can be so good for children when done in moderation.  Encouraging their creativity like I was saying, but also the other benefits, the cognitive benefits.  Yeah, I’d just love to see more people looking at the positives of gaming, because they are out there, you’ve just got to go and look for them.  
Thank you a lot for your time, and if you’re interested I will send you the output of our analysis after we analyse the interviews. 
Yes, please do, because I’d be happy to write about it on the British E-Sports Association website. 
Oh yeah, absolutely.  
Thank you, I enjoyed the chat actually, it made me think about gaming.  
Thank you a lot.  Goodbye. 
Thank you, goodbye.