NOTES Gender: male Interview year: 2020 Interview mode: remote Full interview length: 00 h 49 min 51 sec; 4856 words Transcript validation: two-researchers Anonymised transcript validation: two-researchers & interviewee Interview language: English ABBREVIATIONS I - interviewer R - interviewee's response [text] - anonymised excerpt <...> - excerpt omitted for anonymisation purposes (e.g., personal, or other-specific data) - technical remarks (e.g., pause, smiling, rebuking) {...} - excerpt omitted to enhance coherent reading {text} - clarification inserted to enhance coherent reading [1] The term of an ombudsperson is used in general sense about those who handle allegations, resolve conflict and/or promote research integrity in other ways. [2] The Ombudsperson body denominates commission, committee or other organisational structure related to handling of allegations, resolution of conflicts and/or other ways of research integrity promotion that is established within the Ombudsperson's office. I: So, first of all, I would like to thank you for... your consent to take part in this study. And the first question which which will be probably the {easiest} to answer is... I'd like to ask you to tell me shortly about your path to contributing to research integrity promotion uh... uh as [an Ombudsperson [1]]? R: Ok. Ok. When I became a member of uh... [the Ombudsperson body [2]] ... uh... it was in... [year], I think. Before I... I mean my concepts on integrity and ethics and so we're not very deep. But once I was... I was nominated as a member of the [Ombudsperson body], then... I I understood that I have to do as much as possible to learn and to integrate even more because I was elected uh [chairperson] of the [Ombudsperson body]. And so, I have to... Then it has been ideas, long experience... in this position ... [chairperson] of the [Ombudsperson body]. Uh... Well... I mean, this [Ombudsperson body] have different functions. On the one hand, we have to make the ethics evaluation of different research projects. Uh... That has to do with bioethics in general or biosecurity. Of course, also animal research. So, this is a part of the of the task that we... every research project in the... to be carry out in the [Ombudsperson's office] has to go through through this procedure. Then we have to pay attention to it. Then... going more more deeper on what's considered research integrity or... I mean, what have we... We have generated different documents on research integrity. One of these documents was a national [formal statement] on research integrity which we elaborated the document and then we shared... with the... different universities in in the country. And, also, different... scientific societies and then we agree on... on this document because there there was not at the time that this thing, this sort in [my country]. So, we produced this document. We are happy with this. We... for the [Ombudsperson's office] we have also generated... a [topic- specific] document <...> for the institutions, mostly that devoted to scientific personnel, but also, to non-scientific persons. And this is another document. We are proud of it. Uh... There is... There was, it seems, [year]... There was... [code]. Excuse me... [guide] on on [good research practice] in the [Ombudsperson's office] <...>. And... we have also... we have also run different seminars at research uh... institutes <...>. There are many institutes <...> something like [number of research institutes] all distributed all over the country. And whenever they collabora{ted} ask too because they were interested in having... a briefing on research integrity. We went and give seminar on [the Ombudsperson body]. We also participated... in... in programmes devoted to the full... formation of [institutional leadership] in which we included... unit... on... on the [Ombudsperson body], on the one hand, but mostly on research integrity also. More recently in collaboration... with the... There is... an [organisation] with the {same} name <...>. And this [organisation] has developed a course on good scientific practices. This is a [number of]-days course. The intensive one, but we are running <...> and we will run it in different parts of the country. Uh... They're... the courses devoted to PhD students mostly, but some... some doctors are also taking the course and and it has been is being very successful. Uh... And there... I mean there is... strong component of research integrity, ethics and even including... the study of different practice cases. So, it's a very... intensive course, as I said. And they... I mean, in addition to this, we have... we have participated in different conferences and seminars and so on, contributed... in general. I think I would say... that this is summary of main activities. I: Yeah. That seems really very tremendous contribution to the development of different policies related to research integrity. And given these all, do you consider yourself uh... a promoter of research integrity? R: Uh... To some {extent}, yes. For example, for these courses on... on good... research practices... I am the... the organiser, I mean contact with [research funding organisation] and also with [Ombudsperson's office], but I organise the courses usually about [number of times] per year. So... Well... I... I guess, I mean looking back... I guess, I am... I have had strong participation in all of these issues. I am also trying in that... that government bodies and persons in [the Ombudsperson's office] take a responsibility on research integrity. {...} research integrity is something which is very important for the institution and uh... the... and this {...} also bring help us. . I: Yes, indeed. And... Uh... What are the most important goals that you strove to achieve in promoting research integrity? R: Uh... Well... I mean I I would say, on the one hand, is convincing... to the government bodies... and people of the institutions on the importance, on the relevance of research integrity. On the other hand, the organis... organisation of these different task on introducing research integrity in... in the formation not only of PhD students, but also... as a complement to the formation, the integral formation of... [institutional leadership]. But I have also, I mean, I have been asked to give lectures {at} the university, different inst... instances. What I have tried to do the best in many case{s}. But... also, not only from the university and [the Ombudsperson's office], but other institutions, for example, from many universities. And so, I've come... to the... ethics, <...> recognising that we are somewhat ahead of others and and we've been helping them to to establish in the research integrity committees and etc. I: Ok. So, as you said, that there was kind of high reaction to the push to establish some policies and procedures. Uh... did you uh... strive with this um... to establish a procedure because it existed in some advanced countries? Or does it... did it have some, I don't know, uh... aims behind {...} this? R: Uh... No, I say I told you I mean we... we established these courses which are, I think, more important thing... and... and try also that other institutions, teaching institution, research institutions in the country, also contribute to the goal. For example, with national [formal statement]. As some people, I think... I think this was big success that we introduced from the [Ombudsperson's office], but now finally was extended to all scientific societies and universities in the country. I: Ok. R: I have to... I mean, to complete my... what I was telling you about [the Ombudsperson body]. <...> are research integrity problems that are presented by the persons or the institutions or from or from outside these institutions... Uh... I mean, presenting the problems and then we study {them} within this [Ombudsperson body] to study... different to... finally, to reach a conclusion and so on. And this conclusion we raise because we... we we we don't have executive capacity, but we raise it to the president of [the Ombudsperson's office] in order, I mean, to do whatever the president want to do. But we make a recommendation. Usually, these recommendations are taken by the president. I: Ok. So, you mention, [the national formal statement] ... R: And this... this also takes huge amount of time. I: Yes, indeed. And you mentioned the the national [formal statement] of research integrity and also R: Yes. I: some training that... some courses that you provided. And... becau... As far as I understand, that happened not in one year but took more years. R: Yeah. I: So, what are... areas do you find the most meaningful to focus on to promote research integrity? R: I would say... I mean, in practical terms, in the courses, on... on broad, general terms to have these reference documents - [the national formal statement]. Uh... but, I mean, where, let's say, consider immediate effects of the course . It's difficult to see which are the incidents of the national [formal statement], you know. Some institutions have it in their webpage, the [national formal statement], but you you do not know exactly if they are following it very much or... or not. If... one one thing is reference document for a broad audience and people and the other ones is rather more practical to have broad group of people which are more, how to say, research integrity and to... to to have [number of] days, [number of] complete days, from morning to evening. So, on the one hand, we teach them how to... how to... to write research project and how to... to write a research publication or how to speak in public and so on. But... and... but most... the big part of the courses is devoted to research integrity and research misconduct and ethics. So, this packet is... they complete it. I: I got this kind of variety of different topics that this course covered. And the next question would be about your personal expectations. What are your personal expectations in promoting research integrity? R: My personal expectations... Please, say, with regard to? I: What are your personal expectations in promoting research integrity? R: Uh... {...} I: What do you expect from these? R: What I... I mean... I think it's a very relevant issue. It has to be promoted at all levels. Some... more forms, but... my expectations... For example, in my country, there is not yet resear... [national body for research integrity]. I mean even when I see... I see [the Ombudsperson's office] is the national institution, but we are lacking. On the one hand, [a national body for research integrity]; we are lacking a national [body for research integrity] or equivalent. More more specifically, [a national body for] research integrity and this is something which is already part of the law that has to exist, but no government has succeeded in... in establishing it in practical terms. I think this is something that that should be achieved in short terms in [my country] if we really want to promote research integrity in the country. Uh... this will be my maximal expectation in this regard. I: Ok. And could you share... the obstacles you faced with while promoting research integrity? R: Mh. Do you mind {repeating} it? I: Aha. The question is about the obstacles that... R: Obstacles? I: ... you face with while promoting research integrity. R: Obstacles... Uh... Let's say that not every university or rector or director of research and so on... appreciated in the full context the relevance of the of the issue. It means something, let's say, that the... everyone will agree with a music, but not with the with the letter, with uh... contents. Uh... Uh... Usually, these people are are dealing with more immediate problems of... of the university or the research institute or centre of institution. Uh... They don't get research integrity importance in the research. So, this is something I try to... We try to to raise in a way... in every one of my contributions, seminars, conferences and so on. Calling the the the research integrity is the responsibility of every... of individual researchers, but it's also... there is the shared responsibility uh... by the institutions and the societies, for example. And then, at least, until the institutions... and the societies really get a message... involves themselves very... very deep, it will not succeed; this... what concerns to... to my country. I: And what... where... R: So... I: You want to complement? R: Excuse me. No, no. It's ok. I: It's ok. What are the toughest decisions that you had to make as a research integrity promoter? R: Well the... How this issue... I wouldn't call such, but I mean I have to fight a lot, for example, to convince the... to convince the authorities in my institution to to have this national [formal statement], for example. You know, what I mean. It was already written down and already... the work was made, and we offered it to the authorities and so on. It took some time to convince them to do something important and there were two concerns... Effort to convince the institutions and the societies to... to share... Again, for example, I told you that we generated that [the Ombudspersons' office] [topic-specific] document <...> because I... we were convinced that conflicts of interests are very important, important in the context of research integrity and misconduct. Again, we had to fight a lot... with autho... authorities until they accepted... the document and that document that has not only covered to researchers, but also to other persons, other officers in the institutions with responsibilities in handling research money. So, those were hard fights. I: Ok. R: And then I have to say, for example... Well, those are personal comments I have to say, but I have... with regard to... also with authorities of institutions, I have to find way how that they can accept that... that [Ombudsperson body] (that's ours) ... has to be... has to have independence... has to be autonomous and absolute independent {from} authorities. So, fighting for independence has been again a great deal of effort. I: And could you a bit elaborate more on, as you mention, independence, to fight for independence? In what sense the need... there was a need for independence? R: There is a need for independence. For example, we are dealing with... with misconduct. Uh well... with violation of... of research integrity, especially in this case because there there are persons from institutions {...} involved. Sometimes people, the government people or bodies would like to to intervene or to to know or even better to intervene in the decisions of the [Ombudsperson body]. These, I think, independencies absolutely needed. Um... I have to say that our [body of the Ombudsperson's office] is... is... I mean, when they created the [Ombudsperson body], {...} as... auxiliary body... body to help the {president} of the institution. And then sometimes the president would like... onl... only see this role, you know - "No, you are dependent on me. You... have to help me." Then you cannot be independent. Otherwise, independence is necessary for... for dealing with this kind of conflict, some problems, especially those related to violations of research integrity. I: Yes, indeed. Uh... Yeah, and when you mention the... that was specifically related to handling of allegations and... Do I understand correctly that these decisions uh... they are not kind of recommendations or opinion, but they are true decisions. Is this right? R: Yeah, but... but but I told you that... previously told you that we... [the Ombudsperson body] has not executive force. I: Uh yeah. R: So... you have to raise it to... I mean, we studied it, and we reached what we call agreements, [the Ombudsperson body's] agreement that we raise when we have a final agreement, but we do this simultaneously... we... send it to the presidents of the {research} institutions, but also to the person who who did the allegation and to the persons affected by the allegation. So, the same agreement that we reach goes to the same person at the same time. I: Uh ok. R: This was something that was not always understood by... by presidents {of research institutions}. They would rather prefer to have their... our agreement and then see what what to do before other people know such decision. I: Uh ok. R: I mean what I would like to be clear, [name of interviewer], is that uh... I mean I'm telling very... very clearly... <...> I: Mh. What motivates you in your work? I mean in in in research integrity promotion. {...} What motivates you in your work which is research integrity promotion? R: Uff... I would say... I mean... Uh... As as long as I have been a university professor and... And also, director <...>, I have always tried to to... establish research integrity criteria, to make them very clear to the research group and also to the students... to introduce the concepts and the relevance of the concepts, but but I stopped teaching... <...>. Uh... Well I can tell you that's that... that <...> I moved to the private sector and... <...>. One thing I did is asked to start to... to write... to write a code on ethics of professional behaviour. You see, when you get accustomed to this, then you find that these things are very important also not only {in the} public sector, but also to introduce them in the private sector. And once you you tell reasonable people the purpose of these documents and uh... on the relevance for the [company] uh... then everybody understand{s} and accept{s} to have these references approved. <...> I: Ok. And what and what makes... or what made you persistent in performing your duties at [the Ombudsperson body] ... to promote research integrity? R: I: Because this is, as you mention, is not one-year job. R: Well. I mean... At the beginning I didn't know much about research integrity. Then I have worried very much to... to grasp the concepts and... and to build research integrity mentality. Say so. Then... I mean... I have incorporated research integrity... I... Even when preparing the... the talk, the lecture, whatever, I I have been worried, for example. Because we don't have in general general{ly} accepted concept for research integrity. Everybody talks about research integrity. But if you try to find the definition, you hardly will find any convincing definition. Well, for example, the European Code for Research Integrity - you wouldn't find the definition there... of research integrity. And... I mean, I... I... I attempted to establishing the definition for research integrity and transmit this to to other people. And then also... Well also in international fora, for example. There was... <...> Uh... Yeah, [an international organisation]. There was [an Ombudsperson body] and we within the [body of the Ombudsperson's office] ... we have been very actively collaborat... collaborating there. And also, at the European Network of Research Integrity {ENRIO}. And we have been participating in discussion groups and so... I... I... I have tried to get involved in clarifying concepts that can be shared but everybody because really, {in} Europe we have heterogenous concepts of research integrity and how to deal with this. These efforts are also very important to to try to get common position {in} Europe on these topics. I: Ok. Another question would be about your greatest achievements. So, what are your greatest achievements in promoting research integrity? R: Hhh... Well As I told you, I have to put everything together... the... the construction, the building of reference document and and courses to mentalise people and to introduce... to convince people on the relevance of this... research integrity and related issues. I would say that... That's what I really consider the the... among successful in my efforts with the regard to research integrity integrity promotion. I: Ok. So, this is the kind... of... uh... stimulating changes. R: Mh. I: This is what I do understand, I mean, to make some transformation in in what was at the beginning and what you have right now. Right? R: Yeah. Well, as I told you, in [my country] there was no reference document on research integrity and we... we got we got one and to make it extensive to the big scientific community. In [my country] there were no courses for PhD students on these topics and we have raised a packet of courses, comprehensive courses to help... the... PhD students and research integrity itself. And in our institute, at [the Ombudsperson's office] in particular, we have gap filled up, we contributed to to build up the culture of research integrity... with the collaboration of governmental bodies, etc. But it has taken much effort to reach the... and then also to... extend research integrity. As I told you, I have participated in, I mean, lectures, in congress on... [specific area] and so on. Uh... opening lectures on research integrity... uh... and then in many other forms trying to send as possible, to send message to everyone. I: And what would you like to further achieve? R: As I told you, this national [office] with competence on research integrity, this is something which is... Either I leave this idea... And well, I would like to see... {at} every university, for example, uh... uh... courses... of different sizes... depending on the... on research integrity and that universities in... on academic integrity which is... goes goes a little bit further. This is research... I will be happy with this... And I would think that was by the way our effort. I: And what did you get from this job? R: Uh... I... I mean Well, on a personal level, it has been very... very fruitful, I mean, I I had to learn a lot... and I'm happy to to introduce in the in the integrity... research integrity well. I am really happy... I forget about the hard times but looking at the at the... global context it has been something very satisfying for me. <...> So... totally... years totally devoted to the issue, and and it has been gratifying and fruitful. I: And how {were} you appreciated for this?... How {were} you appreciated for this? R: Well, I think, in general terms, I think that... the... this effort has been appreciated... uh... in general. Well, many people who I... which I have contacted along these times in these issues, are... many have told me about... uh... I mean uh... about importance of what... This is not only me who who has contributed, but it has been the [Ombudsperson body] all together. The [administrative staff of the Ombudsperson body] has been uh... another great importance also in the... I mean, what we have achieved... <...> and then it's always important to have the logic from inside to... in order to clarify things. But, but then in general, the comments I received... and the message I got from people were... <...> uh... I... I mean, very... I mean I'm grate... grateful for the patience, interesting uh... This is a product, something good has been done. I am happy. I: And did it affect somehow your career? Because you mention that you also... uh... {were} part of the university. Right? R: Yes . Uh... Well... My career... No, I think it has been a good time for me... that I could... I could make together the... the task of the [lead] and... make it compatible with other activities. I have... So... I I would say... about one year after I started with a [lead of the Ombudsperson body], I... I left the university to... to take a position... well, to to take the direction of this [Ombudsperson's office]. And then, I was... working together with the [research funding organisation] which was established in [city] and also the [Ombudsperson body]. I mostly was working there and... Uh... I could run both things together. Giving a lot of time, I have to say, to the [Ombudsperson body]. So, this task... uh... takes a lot of time if you want to behave carefully and it was the situation. So, I don't think it affected my career at all. I... I... I think it has been in a... good compliment of my career. I consider it as part of my... my academic... career. And I am very much.... And I am very proud of it. I: Great to hear this. Uh... Maybe just in order to summing up, what did this work mean to you? R: What {...} does it mean to me? I: What this work that you made as [a chairperson] of [the Ombudsperson body] {...} mean to you? R: Something important, I... I have to say. It has been... it has been a relevant step... Uh... I have been living it intensively uh... I am very gratifying, as I told you before also. As I told you, we... an integral part of my all academic research activity... fruitful all together. I: And the very final, but not the question. Just clarification. Is there anything else you would like, or you find important to share, but I have... haven't asked? R: Uh... Well... That always... This is not one-person task. You need the help of many people and I have to say that many of the... members of the [Ombudsperson body] have been also... spending... lot of time task . We have had collaborating task all together. So, you need... By by oneself it's difficult to achieve anything relevant. You have to get collaboration and... and... Let's say, what I think is that we have to convince... all the types of institutions to... to share responsibility in promoting resear... research integrity. Otherwise, we wouldn't achieve the task. Try to involve them uh... in all possible ways. Uh... I... I... In in more basic sense, I told you try try to get common definitions and common behaviours regarding research integrity and research misconduct. I think this is very important to be achieved. This is a collective effort... That is worth to be... to spend time a bit. I: Yeah. I fully agree. This is something that reminds me about... the need to calibrate all understandings to speak the one language. R: Yeah. Yeah. Uh... Collaboration means these topics because... there are... there... I mean there are many individual or individual institutional... uh... activities, but it's very important to to get them to collaborate all together. Uh... because collaborative research projects or by participation on... on networks or... or some other fora. Uh... this is really very important to collaborate to to get this common task. And then there are institutions who are trying to do this. Involve, for example, is working hard for establishing European policy. What are other efforts on the way: projects, collaborative project is going on and, this has to be favoured, and I think... Well, I have to say that there there are communities, the [Ombudsperson's office] ... Not the [Ombudsperson's office], but the... the {European} Commission is doing very important task in this context. It's nice that they have incorporated research integrity into the objectives of... together with ethics and deal... with not very far from now. And they are worried about ethics, but now they are pressing very much also, I mean, all this research integrity and the compromise with integrity... in all the initiatives of Horizon 2020. And I then hope that also for Horizon Europe. So, these are very important tasks which should be also... and... promoted. I: Mh. Ok. So, thank you very much... for your contribution to this interview! {...}