NOTES Gender: male Interview year: 2020 Interview mode: remote Full interview length: 00 h 44 min 52 sec; 5382 words Transcript validation: two-researchers Anonymised transcript validation: two-researchers & interviewee Interview language: English ABBREVIATIONS I – interviewer R – interviewee’s response [text] – anonymised excerpt <…> – excerpt omitted for anonymisation purposes (e.g., personal, or other-specific data) – technical remarks (e.g., pause, smiling, rebuking) {…} – excerpt omitted to enhance coherent reading {text} – clarification inserted to enhance coherent reading I: So, thank you very much for agreeing to take part in the study where we, I mean me and my co-researcher, explore the promotion of research integrity uh… from the side of meaningfulness. And the first question I would like to ask you is, you know, more relates to self-introduction and it is – could you shortly tell me about your path to your role at the network? R: My name is <…>. I am a professor in a [field of sciences] Department in the [University], member of the ethics and research integ… integrity institution and both uh responsible for the [name of] network that is a network of institutes and universities in [my country], most of universities and institutions, dealing with the research… integrity issues and, also ethics in a more general uh… concept. Uh… That’s… Now do you want, [name of an interviewer], to proceed a little bit in details how… how we… we have decide{d} to deal with such issues uh… in national level through uh… [the network]? I: Yes. Actually, I would be very interested in… hearing about this a bit more. Could you? R: Ok. We we we decide to include the research integrity issues in a… in a heart of the [network] since it was a necessity uh… that couldn’t be uh… couldn’t be uh… dealt at the… at the institutional level. It was a little bit difficult because we have completely different institutions: institutions dealing with health, institutions dealing with… with materials or with social sciences. So, we we need a national framework with basic rules and then each institution could specify the specific terms and approaches for the research integrity in its specific expertise at a field. We we… we decide to to see the issue of research integrity by different views. First, in education. Uh… education in two levels – for our students before first degree and then in postgraduate level. Also, we tried to… We suggest in all institutions, at universities, especially universities, because institutions are not educated units, educational units. So, we decided to to suggest them to include also lectures, specific lectures by experts uh… for uh… research integrity issues in fields of their students. At the moment, there is {a} huge gap in the education in the first level. In uh… high school – there is nothing there. And then in universities we are trying to convince the institutions and universities to include at least some lectures… with… how to say… introduction… introd… introduction character, so for young… for younger students – first year of studies or second. In a postgraduate level, we are in a much better level, at least in my institution, because we have central out. We have [number of] postgraduate uh… courses in my institution, [name of university]. And there… we have some central uh… lectures. We are trying uh… to have lessons also centrally for all of them at the same time. Uh… Now it is… it is a little bit complicated because, on the other hand, we have the medical schools. Medical schools are completely different because they are… they have evaluations there. For <…> engineers and the material scientists, also uh… physics and chemistry students, mathematics, we have to deal with a completely different approach. So, let’s say, we are talking for uh research integrity in methodologies, research methodologies, but make it simpler, let’s say, for statistics. We have to… to have research integrity… research integrity… uh perspective in when you’re building a statistical methodology. The same for methodology in the lab. Uh… It’s not… It’s not… how to say… it’s not only the safety issues in the methodology itself to follow specific uh… research integrity rules. Uh… What else? A! There is another level that we are trying to to… approach uh… not only easy easy because of COVID. We start to to study it in the last [name of month]. Now we have to restart again. It is research integrity issues for companies. Uh… There we have a completely different approach, but, as I said, because all these are efforts in a voluntary basis, it means it’s my team, [number of] people, we are trying to coordinate this network. It’s it’s not very easy because there is no… obvious uh… obvious motivation. It’s not a project, let’s say. So, we have to convince other colleagues to to participate. And, you know, it it it’s not easy. This is for… for a first description how how we deal with such issues in in national level and, also in in institutional level. You can ask me more specific questions if you wish. I: I’d like, you know, to ask you also some questions that {…} remain in a broad perspective, but still maybe the answer will be more specific. You know, it is quite… that there are a lot of people that are doing research integrity promotion. And you as a part of this network, do you consider yourself as a promoter of research integrity? R: I: Sorry, I… I can’t hear your answer if… because… R: Yes. Yeah, yeah yeah… If I understand right, yes, I am a promoter uh… in uh… in uh… It’s for sure in my institution and we are we are… and, also in my country because we uh we tried few years ago and now it is a part of a [national] Law for <...> that is a specific reference. I think it is one basis to issues related with ethics and research integrity. So, in this sense, uh… I and some other colleagues, we have tried very hard to include it in [a national] Law for <...>. So, now it is part of it. And, also, uh… I was the guy who introduced it in my… in my university, [name of university]. Uh… and now I am not a part of this since, I was, you know, we we have kind of conflict of interest. <...> since I am part of the administration, I cannot be part of the committee for ethical issues and research integrity issues. I: Ok. R: So, now I am not active part. But... but, you know, I was one of them, but my team and me, make this introduction of ethics and research integrity issues uh… for methodologies and so on in the university. I: Ok. And given your role at the network, what are the most important goals that you strive to achieve in promoting research integrity? R: Uh… If I understand right, you want… you want quantified targets. I: Not specifically. Maybe just to to to explain what {…} these, the most important goals, {...} are to be achieved because, you know, promotion of research integrity is this… this kind of, let’s say, “work” that requires a lot of efforts. So, what at the end is? R: For for for us, the most important is to activate young researchers from the early stage of their career, be sensitive with such issue. As a professor, this is my first priority. To train them… to train them uh… about research integrity issues. Uh now in more… uh how to say… more business (in privates ok) uh view, I think that we have to follow in our everyday lab life that rule in our… I think, and, also in our practices in the lab. I: {…} When you mention business, do you mean business which makes research. I mean, R&D companies? R: No no… Research business. I mean research business. You know, as a professor, we have two uh directions. One is to educate young researchers, young young students. And then uh… we have also young researchers because they are working with us in the lab as PhD students or postdoc students. Uh… So, that’s why I said two-fold. One is our students in uh… uh in a first year of their studies. And then we have more experienced students, like PhD students or postdoc students. And there we have to teach them not only in the classroom, we have to teach them in everyday life of the lab. I mean making experiment experiments with them, to to design experiments, to implement experiments and so on. Then, to to to work together to build the paper. It’s common work. That’s what I mean. I: Ok. And so, what areas {do} you find the most meaningful to focus on? Because you mention the target group as young researchers, junior researchers, but what areas are these. All {research} of any field? Or there is a bit different focus? R: Can you… can you… I I I am not sure that I have understand very well… I: Yeah. Ok. R: So, could you? I: Mh. Ok. So, my question was... is about what areas or fields, what fields you find the most meaningful to focus while promoting research integrity. Is there any field or area which is the most sensitive and needs more attention to research integrity promotion than others? R: I think that the… more important fields are mostly related with biomedical research, uh... or toxicity, or safety. <…>. So, in medicine, nanotechnologies also {are} a very interesting field. Uh in my opinion, in medicine technologies field, like nanotechnology, biomedical toxicity and safety research, are every sensitive areas and we have to pay special attention. Also, statistics related with society. The recent example of COVID-19, it was a very good example to see how we have to deal with research integrity issues in methodology of uh… statistics. That’s my opinion. That that three three uh… broad uh… fields – {...} nanotechnology, bio-related and safety-related field and, finally, statistics-related with society. I: Ok. Could you elaborate a bit more about the last example that you provided about the COVID? R: Of course. I: You mentioned that there was kind of challenge to deal with statistics. Could you just maybe be more specific by giving one or two examples? R: Yes. It was… there was a lot of discussion in in the press, in every paper (as I mean newspapers and so on, internet) uh… about the contradictions of different groups uh but behind that it was that people in press are using uh… methodologies uh… at groups of researchers with different opinions about the uh… the {growth} of the COVID-19 and so on. But behind that is the… who is going uh… to fund such a rese… research. And what is the research… specific research methodology? What is the subtle of the… of the research? Uh… Such issues?... I don’t know if you know, {but} I I do not want to to name specific teams for [name of country] or from uh… Europe, but there was, at least I saw a huge uh… discussion and debate about different research teams uh… trying to convince people for this or the other uh… growth of the COVID. And what is… what is the the the the… what is behind this… uh… uh… this research with COVID. I: So, you mean {…} prediction? R: Let’s say one {…} who is a friend of mine… I can… I can speak. It is the opinion of [a prominent researcher], professor from [name of university] in [name of country]. <...>. [S/he] is a very famous professor in medical school. In [name of university], sorry. [S/he’s] doctor. And [s/he’s] dealing… [her/his] research is dealing with uh statistics. There was a lot of discussion about [her/his] opinion, [her/his] research methodologies. I: Mh. So, {do} you mean that that relates to the prediction of growth? R: Exactly. It is it is the prediction of growth of COVID. I: Ok. That would be… That’s really interesting case because we also {have} such a debate in our country too. Uh the next question would be… relates to your personal expectations. What are your personal expectations in promoting research integrity? R: As I said before, uh… my personal expectations will be to see young people to work in in in this… field. Uh I think that this is… this is a field… a standalone field. It shouldn’t be like this. Uh… The the the the advantage of research integrity is that you can have any background from medical, social sciences, engineering, uh… mathematician, whatever, but… philosopher, but you can work in this research integrity field uh… from very different… uh… with very different background. As I want to see in the next couple of years, maybe five years, young people to to to work on it, to to have a specific department in our university with young staff… with young staff dealing with such issues. I: Mh. Uh. R: That what I am expecting. That what I am doing. It’s it’s… Also, it is better quality in our research. Better quality in our research means uh… better products based on this research and this means better life for for uh… society. Quality of life will be improved. It’s for sure. I: And when you mention better life for society, because it is quite a very broad concept, how would you see this better life? R: I mean better in terms of products… pro… produced uh… products based on research. It would be… Quality will be much much better and, also, will be completely transparent the way of the research in order to to to have such products. I mean transparency uh… is is a necessity in the research in order to avoid a lot of… tricky issues, like dual use and so on. Uh that is… Let’s say, dual use is always there, almost always, but we have to speak clearly for this possibility. The possibility of dual use. And then the the the society has to decide uh… because when you are using people… using money from from taxpayers in order to to promote the innovation and research, then you have to serve that taxpayers. Ok? Not different… different scopes, lobbies and so on. You have to serve; you have to work for them. It is very simple. It’s it’s it’s very decision if the research will go or not go, but it should be for sure that they have their right to know all the possibilities and the rules of the research that is performed in a in a public lab or in a private lab. Maybe yeah. I: Mh. {Are} there any obstacles that you face with in promoting research integrity? R: The the major obstacle is the fact that people like me, professionals of research and education, do not pay too much attention in such issues because we have to to deal with everyday problems that is to do our job, the way that we are… we have to do our job, our research, our projects. Uh… You know how it is. It is our everyday life problems. And then we forget uh… some some very… important targets, like research integrity. As I said, you are not going to guarantee… we are not going to have a good product from research if we do not uh… ensure the the the… the way that we are going to produce this product. I: Uh and… What kind of toughest decisions you had to make as a research integrity promoter? R: Wh… What do you mean? Decisions? I: The toughest decisions, I mean, when you had to decide something, to make a choice… by deciding where to go, you know, what pathway to choose, when you also… you represent research integrity promotion. R: I I am not sure if I understand right. The main problem is that there is not a national framework of rules that we should follow and then it is a little bit difficult for us to convince our institution to follow that rules because my colleague will come to me and say: “Come on. Don’t ask me it now because you will delay my research.”, and that they cannot follow these, you know, my… “The European Commission is not asking all this stuff.” To be honest, I understand them. As I said, we… everyday life of a researcher is not easy, but if we, you know… from the first time… what are the rules. If there is a central uh… decision-making uh… centre {body}, and we we we we decide that we have to to follow some rules, then it is more... is {simpler}. Of course, the the… it’s national, it’s government. The European Commission should also help and support researchers. We have already a lot of problems, and I understand us, I understand my colleague. Uh… When they are complaining about it… [name of an interviewer], let me explain you. Some researchers, they see that research integrity is uh… something more in bureaucracy of the European Commission or of the philosophers, social scientists. And I {have} totally convinced them it’s it’s not this. It’s not bureaucracy. It’s better quality of our lives. And… the future… the future is there. It it… it’s obvious. But I {do} understand them because I know that we {do} fight alone with a lot of, let’s say, enemies in in that. You know what I mean. Let’s say, my my my problem is that I have a group with [number of] people and I need projects, funded projects in order to keep that people with me. Uh… So, this is my first priority. When someone told me why I am fighting for new projects, you know you have to follow this and that and now you are… you are… your lab will be closed because you don’t follow that rules. I say: “Come on, but it couldn’t be.” You know what I mean. So, we need… All researchers need the the the national government… governments. And the European Commission who is mostly uh… the funding mechanism and, also the private companies that another… this is another… funding mechanism. We need all of them to be informed. That’s why I told you we need new researchers, we need new class of researchers, new age of researchers and, also private companies to know what {…} research integrity {is}, and together with governance to help us to to implement all the needs in this direction, in direction of research integrity. I: Ok. I got this, the example you provided. So, given these all situations, what motivates you in promoting research integrity? Because this is a kind of tough work, you know, to convince all which are close to you or even not so close. R: Uh... As I said before uh… my my motivation is to to to see another environment in the next… for the next generation, to help a little bit and to prepare a better research environment, {healthier} uh… and {easier} for them. {…} I try to promote research integrity in in in all the ways. I: Mh. And what makes you persistent in performing your duties to promote research integrity? Because, as you mentioned, there are some… some… cases when you understand that maybe that is not a primaril… primary… primary focus, but again you also mentioned it needs more attention. So, what makes you persistent, you know, in performing your duties on behalf of network and to promote research integrity? R: Um… I’m trying to find a very good reason for this because when we started to work in this… uh in in in this… field, we were alone. And we are still more or less there. There are three four more groups in [my country], but there they are trying to share with us some ideas and some practices. The the… I want to… What I wanted, this is the reason why I insist, is that I want to see… practices, not words, not papers. Good practices. That’s what… that’s why I want to and I insist finally to see practices in our everyday research life. Uh… I think that the the next generation will do the the the boom… but but at this level, at this time, now… we have to prepare the ground for them. That’s what… That’s that’s what I am doing – to prepare the the the boom… The boom will do in the next five years. And it will be part of the national funding schemes, not only {European} Commission because now Commission is… is funding the research integrity and the Commission is seeking for more quant{it}ative results on research integrity. We have to… We have to quantify our targets. It’s not uh… It’s not only general targets; we have to specify each of us in his expertise field, to to name all the quant{it}ative targets that we have to do {in} our lives, our research uh… more responsible and to guarantee research integrity. I: Mh. Ok. Um… R: You know, it is a little bit different situation in South of Europe than in in in the North. You know better than me. So, when… when we start, I say, we have to study our… Nord neighbours, very Nord, very very Nord, very Nord, because it is part of [their] mentality. It is not part of the mentality of the uh... of the South. South – it’s not only Greece, Portugal, or Spain. It’s also France. It’s also… Italy. I mean that half… We have uh… Europe of two or maybe three levels. Completely different – North and Central Europe and in the South. So, in my opinion, we have… we have to work a lot in order to have a more unified situation in Europe and then to to keep our connections with {the United} States (completely different situation), Japan. China also. Africa. It’s… it’s {a} global issue. It’s not only {a} European issue, but we have to see how we will… we will quantify our targets, how we will have some national and of course European funding, and international collaboration is the key. We have to motivate all layers, not only North Europe, South Europe or though. It’s… it’s {a} global issue. I: Yes, indeed. Um… So, what are your greatest achievements in promoting research integrity? R: Excuse me? I: What are your greatest achievements in promoting research integrity? R: In my opinion, uh… I… I… I convinced my people to stop to publish uh… one paper uh… that there… ther… there were serious questions about the the research integrity of our methodology. Uh… and then… I am very happy when I see it in the lecture of my colleague (I was with the dep… with the younger researchers in the audience) and I… I had the chance to to see how well was received uh… the talk of my colleague, this talk about research integrity. All that young researchers uh… receive his his [number of]-hours lecture. It was with breaks with breaks. [Number of] hours with breaks. It was a very, how to say, very… I I really enjoy {seeing} 25 young people… to be happy with with this presentation. <...>. It was really really nice. {…} And after, it was also very important because, you know, when someone of your colleagues, postdoc, some candidate for PhD, are coming to you after my comment about post-problems in research integrity, but very very soft comment from my side. And after two… two days they came in my office, in lab – “You are right. We don’t… We cannot publish this way. We have to go back, and we have to approach again with a different way, and more experiments would be needed”. It was also very very good… Uh… achievement because they decided. I {have} not forced {…} them to follow this. I said: “I don’t want my name to be in this publication, but I cannot… but if I cannot convince you, then…” Two days… then two days later they told me that “No. You are right. We have to to reconsider it”. I: Mh. Yes. It’s kind of stimulation of self-reflection and then acting. Right? R: Yes yes! I: Mh. And let’s say that there are some goals that you’ve already achieved. As you mentioned, the younger generation is more deliberate about research integrity and allocates more attention to this area. What else would you like to further achieve… in a longer perspective? R: Um… in a longer perspective… I: Let’s… Mh… This is, you know, this is because you mentioned quite few times about the focus on younger generation. And… and imagine that it is already ok with the younger generation. So, what next? R: Uh… What I am expecting is… but, you know, it is not my thing. So, I am not expert. I know uh… from reading that I am not convinced, but the the research… my… I… I am convinced that… we have… we have lack in research integrity… in a... in in in a medicine, in pharmacy industry. So… my concept is how we will improve research integrity issues in pharmacy uh industry, but it’s a little bit away from a… from my… expertise. <…>, I am not working direct{ly} with them. How they… how they… test… a new… a new drug, let’s say. I know but… but, as I said, it’s not in my experience. In my... in my… What I am expecting is to have more transparency processes in a research, in this specific field and, also in space… in space research. Uh… As I said before, dual use issue is very serious and in the… in the upcoming framework programme, the new one, dual use… will will be faced completely different and will be part of the game, if if I can say this phrase. It means that every lab will be free to to perform work on this, but we have to be careful, we have to keep this research transparent. I: Ok. And what do you get from this job? I mean, job in a… in a… not in a direct sense, because this is something that you do is more on a voluntary basis. Right? R: Uh… To be honest I realised uh the the potential of my colleagues. I work with such issues… with [number of] people from my staff, they are direct{ly} related with all that issues. Uh… [counting people] ... Yes. And I… I I I realise the huge potential of that [number of] people. I… I do not expect, you know… Ok. Although we have some good funding from {European} Commission, but the most important is to realise that my people {have} huge potential. It is… it is {a} huge benefit for me. I mean… You know how it is. You feel very happy to see… to see the potential of your people in in new ar… areas. I: So, do you mean that there they have the potential to continue what you have started? R: Yes. To keep it and to continue. Yes. Exactly. And, also, to performing with… with a very good way, very well acceptance from other colleagues in a… in a… in Europe… or in… in abroad. In general. {…} So, to be every every time there. Sometimes they need to be there, but I… I I I feel but this work… I have a good… I have a good… the best staff to continue. Now I am… I am useful for them maybe to give them idea or to say how to do it sometimes. Kind of advice. That’s it. That’s it. They know how to do it now. I: Ok. And how uh… are you appreciated for this? I mean for that what you do in this what I mean the promotion of research integrity. What credit do you get from this? R: What specific credits? Uh… For me, gratitude is a good atmosphere with my colleagues when we we we… we start, you know, we start a mission, let’s say, a mission right and then when we finish this; we are happy with the result. It’s a credit. I am happy with this. Then that there’s also a project that we participate, in a new project, in a new funding project. This is a kind of uh… acknowledgment of their work, for our… for my work also. This… there is… there is… there is nothing else because for my institution uh… it was one of my basic concepts which used people who are part of administration, from the committees related with research integrity. This is the best way to guarantee that people are not mixed the administration of the institution with the implementation of research integrity principles. So, now I am not part of research integrity committee of my university. But, of course, I can see that something is moving, and I hope that it will be stronger and stronger with the time. I: And how it… cou… could it affect your career in the future? Because, as you mentioned, as you are now part of the administration or or, let’s say, the biggest part of your work and you are excluded from this kind of… work of implementing research integrity within your own institution. So, how {does} it affect your career in the future? R: I… I am not… I am not sure because, you know, this type of… activity is 15 %. For me it’s 20 {%} sometimes like that. But I do not expect to… affect my career. I am… I am already… team… team… in… I am a matter of the principle in my institution. Uh… Ok. That is also… I I I think… I think that there is no direct… effect in my career. Maybe some… of course, we participate in some papers, we are going to prepare some papers… in national level and some others in… in a in a… in international journals. But this is 15 % that’s for for for me because I have the the the… the heavy part of my activities in more technical projects dealing with [specific technology field] and so on. But it’s it’s good for me to see my people to {be} motivated and to start to write things uh… or to be like you right now. They are also… trying to to make… interviews with people in [my country] … trying to… trying to formulate kind of new mentality in this research… the research… in the researches, in [my country]. But I am not expecting to to affect too much my career. Now my political… let’s say, political… my administration career… maybe, maybe in the future, but I am [age, number of years] now and I… I have, I think, several years more to work in a [specific technology field] and science and then I will see. But… in [my country] you can’t be sure anyway . I do not expect kind of made for for uh for this. This is something that we are doing if you want to do it for for your people, for your… institution, uh… for your country, for Europe. Uh independent. And then if something good raises, well done, that’s it. I: Ok. To to summing up, what does promotion of research integrity mean to you? R: Mh. To see one of my people to do the next step… or another colleague, but younger than me . I: So, we need for everything much more time than we have. Many plans on our list. Right? Ok. Is there anything else that you find important to mention, but I haven’t asked? R: To say… thank you very much. <…> I: Thank you!